Neil Dudley: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Pederson’s Farms podcast. We are so excited you’re here. We appreciate you joining us. And we look forward to sharing these conversations with thought leaders from our industry. They’re going to paint a picture from every perspective – consumer, customer, vendor, employee, and peer – that I think is going to be super valuable, and we’re really excited to share. So, thanks for tuning in. Remember don’t tune out, and grab life by the bacon.

What would you say if I told you I could get you access to millions of dollars of network? Sounds pretty good to me. Well, that’s what the SMA does, Southwest Meat Association. Today’s guest, Mr. Joe Harris, well, he runs that organization, and we’re going to talk about his journey to getting there, what he does, what the organization is all about, his philosophies on several things, and just take some time to give you access to thought leaders. That’s what the Pederson’s podcast is about, giving perspectives of where your food comes from through industry professionals that I happen to have relationships with. If this is your first time, my name’s Neil Dudley. I’m the VP of Business Development over at Pederson’s Farms. And I worked myself up to this position from a QA tech. My best friend since kindergarten was made president of the company. I came to work here. He put me in a QA position, which I really think his vision for that was great because it taught me the food production system from the base level – QA, production, sales, marketing, acquisitions, all these things that we’ve been a part of. And now I want to introduce all those things to you as business peers, may be consumers of our product. This gives you a really deep, robust understanding of where your food comes from and how Pederson’s Farms does what we do. So, thanks for listening. I do know your time’s valuable, so let’s get to this interview. Again, keep listening if you want to hear all about how to get access to millions of dollars’ worth of network. Let’s do it. 

Okay, hey, everybody out there on YouTube and listening on the podcast. We want the PNF faithful, we call them PNFers, to have a chance to get to know this guy and the association he really directs, runs, and makes sure is providing value to its members. So welcome to the show, Mr. Joe Harris, the Southwest Meat Association big boss, let’s say. And we’re going to explore the importance of these industry associations, how he keeps up with everything. I mean, to me, some of that stuff you do is just really impressive. So hi, Joe, welcome to the show, and geez, I just can’t wait to find out more about how you actually do what you do. 

Joe Harris: Well, howdy, and it’s good to be here. I’m looking forward to visiting.

Neil Dudley: Okay, so for everybody just to get a baseline understanding of your expertise without me having- maybe they don’t want to take my word. I mean, I can tell them, look, Joe knows what he’s talking about, but tell us a little bit about your career path and how you ended up in the seat you’re in today. Maybe just five minutes quickly. 

Joe Harris: Sure, great. I actually, I grew up in a registered cattle operation, a Brahman breeder. As they used to tease me in graduate school, a recovering Brahman breeder. My family was in the cattle business growing up. And I had, interestingly enough, growing up as a ranch kid, I never really understood we were in the meat business or the food business. We were just raising cows. And went to school at A&M and got interested. I wanted to be on the livestock judging team and a good friend, upperclassmen, said, hey, you ought to try the meat judging team first. And that was my first exposure to the meat industry was being on the meat judging team at A&M, and really fell in love with the industry. Started getting to know the industry, visiting packing plants, and seeing how the industry operated, and really started getting excited about it a little bit. But the dream was always to go to vet school. I was going to be a veterinarian. And I went in one day my senior year, and one of my professors, Dr. Savell there at A&M, asked me if I’d ever considered graduate school and meat science and coaching the meat judging team. And as good as that sounded, it was hard to give up on the old dream. And so, my first year of grad school was actually, I had already been accepted to vet school and I was supposed to be in vet school and postponed vet school for a year while I thought about things. And got interested in grad school. And the rest is just kind of history. I stayed on the meat science career path and out of the vet school direction. So that was a strange phone call when I called my folks to tell them that I got into vet school, but I was going to go to the grad school in meat science instead. And they thought I was going to go learn to be a butcher. That’s the way they understood meat science. And so, I ended up spending a few years in grad school at A&M, wound up with a PhD in meat science, and just assumed I would follow the academic route and be a professor somewhere like so many of my mentors going through grad school. And ultimately, my first job out of graduate school was with an entity that you know pretty well, Texas Beef Council. So that was my very first job out of graduate school. And I spent about three or four years there working a lot with foreign trade teams. They’d bring in meat buyers from other countries, and we would do seminars and programs and cutting demonstrations. And on some days, it really did feel like I’d spent a long time in school to become a butcher because I did a lot of meat cutting during those days. But after about three and a half years of that, this job opened up at the Southwest Meat Association. And so, this is the second job I’ve ever had. And just this year, November 1^st, will make 25 years of doing this, as a president of the Southwest Meat Association. I just really, really enjoy working with all the members. And that’s how I got to here. 

Neil Dudley: Wow. That’s a fun story. Lots of cool stuff in there. I mean, you talk about cutting meat a lot. I would argue, it’s scary the few amount of people that know how to cut meat anymore. That’s an important piece of a thing we all in the industry need to think about and try to keep promoting so that art doesn’t die. It’s really an interesting and cool thing.

Joe Harris: It’s amazing to me, one of the things that I did, a fun thing that I did fairly early in my career is I served on an advisory board for the meat processing program at Texas State Technical College where they were training butchers, and they were cranking them out. And the grocery stores were hiring them as fast as they could put them out. They couldn’t keep the interest level up. And finally, TSTC canceled the program just because they couldn’t get enough students to come do it. 

Neil Dudley: So that makes you wonder why? Why? Is there not enough money on the back side of that training? Is so hard? Is it- I know it is intricate. It’s not- like you’re still learning 10 years in. There’re so many different animals to break down, so many different techniques, so many different muscles. It really is- it’s hard for me to believe that it gets boring, but there’s also how much money can you make and all those things. I think probably the industry started solving some of those problems at a different place than the grocery store. Okay, cool. Now, so everybody hopefully hears, you’re absolutely qualified to talk on these topics. And the only thing that might disqualify in my mind is all that maroon, but that’s just because I’m a Red Raider. The Red Raiders have a lot of meat science stuff going on there and have a great group of people involved with the SMA. So, it’s always just a fun little boxing match, but nothing really serious behind it. 

Joe Harris: They do. The guys, key players in the meat science program at Texas Tech, two of them I went to grad school with, so they’re good friends and they’re doing a great job up there. 

Neil Dudley: Yes, sir. So, for people that don’t know what the SMA is, let’s paint that picture a little bit. I’ve talked to people on the Cowboy Perspective about it. We’ve had Ed Ruff on Pederson’s Podcast and we talked about it. I think it needs a little deeper discussion, and that’s one reason we’re glad to have you. So, tell anybody that might be a future member or even a customer of members of the SMA, what the SMA is all about.

Joe Harris: Great. I always like to talk about SMA. Number one, that’s what I get paid to do. But it has become a passion. You wouldn’t stay somewhere for 25 years if it wasn’t a passion. A little bit of history about SMA, SMA started in 1957, and it was a group of independently owned packing houses in the state of Texas that formed a little organization. They’d named it the Texas Independent Meat Packers Association, and their sole purpose for the original formation of it was they wanted to form almost like a co-op to leverage their buying power to get cheaper fuel for their delivery trucks. That was its first purpose. 

Neil Dudley: We should do that again.

Joe Harris: It may be time to start looking at that again. But that’s how they started out. And over the years, it has evolved has broadened its scope and changed its name a few times. After Texas Independent Meat Packers, it became Texas and Southwestern Meat Packers, very similar to Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers and covered basically the same membership area as Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers. So, Texas and the border in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico. Then it became the Southwest Meat Packers Association and expanded a little bit more and ultimately just became Southwest Meat Association or SMA. And now we have successfully destroyed the definition of Southwest. We like to say everybody that belongs to SMA is southwest of something. We now have members in 34 states. Some of them are anything but what you would consider to be Southwest. We have had members in Alaska, we have two or three in New Jersey currently. So, we’re all over the board. Now, what do we do? That’s kind of who we are, but what do we do now? We’re no longer, as you know, in the fuel buying business. We provide several things. Number one is information. We try to keep our members up to date on things that impact their business. One of the things that I talk about a lot with the survival of smaller processors, and most of our processors are smaller, even though some of the major packers do participate with us, we’re really an organization driven by the smaller processors. I kept track of it one year, and in one year, the Food Safety Inspection Service alone put out over a hundred notices, directives, new rules, or policy changes, things that our members had to know about. And it’s just about impossible for a company that’s trying to produce and sell high quality, safe products to keep up with all that if they don’t have a dedicated staff to do it, and a lot of smaller companies don’t have that ability. So that’s one of the things we do is we provide a summary of every issuance that comes from FSIS and try to boil it down into a couple page memo. We actually have a law firm in Washington that helps us with this. We can’t handle it all either. And so, they do that. And so that’s one of the things we do. We put out a weekly newsletter, again, trying to keep our members informed of things that impact their business. We provide a lot of regulatory support. Those issuances that come from FSIS all come with teeth attached. In some form or fashion, there are things that companies have to comply with, and we assist those companies in making sure they’re in compliance, or when they’re not in compliance, help them figure out how to get back in compliance and get out of trouble with the government. So, we do a lot of that. In recent years, we’ve become much more active in trying to get our members engaged in the political dialogue, in talking to their elected representatives in Washington. So, we organize a couple of trips a year, and that’s kind of been interrupted by the pandemic. But we organize usually two trips a year to take groups of members to Capitol Hill to talk to their individual members of Congress and other members of Congress that have regulatory oversight over our industry and talk about what’s going on out here and tell them how their policies impact us. Those are a few of the things that we do. And as you well know, we organize conferences and conventions to have informative speakers and provide networking opportunities for our members. One of the things that I don’t know how, but when I talk about SMA, I tend to forget to mention what we try to do to train the next generation of leaders in our industry. And last year, I’m so proud to say that we gave away $84,000 worth of scholarships, a good amount of which went to your friends up in Lubbock and at A&M and Oklahoma State and A&M Kingsville and Angelo State University and West Texas A&M, all places where good young industry leaders are being trained. And so, hopefully that’s down the road going to pay off. 

Neil Dudley: I don’t want to cut you off, but we found employees, future great team members for our company through that relationship, through oh, cool, hey Neil, we gave this guy or gal a scholarship a couple of years ago. They’re probably coming out, looking for something to do. Its just really, I mean, I would say, outside of all those other things, which I hate doing, I would never read a directive if somebody was on me, but I’ll call Joe. When the poop hits the fan, Joe gets a lot of phone calls. I know that because he’s just got that experience. He’s got the understanding. He’s just in that side of things where you really need that help. But anyways, I’m rambling a little bit. I just want to say for anybody listening, SMA or not, any organization you’re working with, find out if they’re dabbling or have a heart for or interest in building that next generation because in a selfish way, it is good for you because you can find good future high quality help, leaders for your organization through that avenue.

Joe Harris: I’m very proud of the fact that I was a recipient of an SMA scholarship, $500 scholarship back in 1987. So, while I was just being on the meat judging team at A&M. And so that was part of my starting to get to know the industry. And I wouldn’t be in the industry today if it hadn’t been for things like that. 

Neil Dudley: It is crazy. Now, sitting in that chair, you have a skill set that I think listeners would be interested in replicating, at least some of them, maybe not all of them. How do you lead? What is your style? How do you think about it? How do you read all those papers or the ones that you do read? I mean, a lot of those things. We talked about regulation, which means laws, which means reading, which means industry news, which means I don’t even know how many members you got, you might’ve said the number a minute ago, but I lost it. And every one of those probably has your personal email address or cell phone. And if you just think about it, if it’s a big enough number, somebody is running into poop every day. And so, talk to us a little bit about how do you accomplish that?

Joe Harris: One of the lessons I learned early on from a mentor of mine was hire people better than you and let them do their job. And so, we have a small staff, but it is a very good staff, and they make me look good. As you know, in whatever field you’re in right now, information is power. But at the same time, there’s so much of it coming at you and you’ve got to wade through it. You can’t absorb it all. You can’t even, again, read it all. And so, it’s try to quickly have our firm in Washington do the short summaries of things. And I don’t read the full thing unless it’s really something important that we need to deal with. And just by reading the little quick page and a half or two page summary, I can get a good feel for, hey, is this going to impact a lot of our members, and do I need to dig more deeply into it or not? And fortunately, a lot of times, I get the key information just from those summaries that we get out of our firm in DC, and that helps a lot. 

Neil Dudley: And all of that comes- I don’t have to pay you extra to get that. I became a member. I pay a membership fee or whatever those requirements are. But after that, man, it is full access to all that.

Joe Harris: It’s a 24/7 support line, if you will, maybe not technical support all the time. Sometimes, with some of your colleagues, sometimes it’s more emotional support. Sometimes they call just to rant, and that’s okay too. And they do call at all hours of the day or night, and that’s just fine with me. It’s really rewarding to be able to work with a company that, it’s never good to be in a crisis situation, but when they are in that crisis, to be able to serve as that less emotional advisor that can help them through and give them the right advice and get them through the crisis with the least amount of collateral damage. 

Neil Dudley: I mean, that’s a testament to you and your career and your staff. High five to you guys because you’re trusted. Like I’m out of here, you’re nowhere around, your staff’s nowhere around. I’m just talking to people that work with, other peers, and just SMA comes up a lot. Like, hey, did you call Joe yet? No, I didn’t. I’d start there; that’s going to be a great resource for you. Are you a member of the SMA? You should become a member. There’s a great resource there for you. So, I’m not just here to fly the flag of Joe’s greatness, but it’s an honest statement I’m making. You guys are certainly valuable to the members and just high five on that.

Joe Harris: Well, I appreciate that. One of the things that, again, obviously I love what I do. I wouldn’t have been doing it nearly this long. But one of the things that I love about SMA, it’s just the people and the members. I think most of us, if we’re passionate about an organization, it’s because of one of two things – either that organization’s cause or the people that are involved in it. And in this case, I think it’s both. But one of the things, when I look back and there’s all this talk right now about, and literally I just earlier this morning was responding to some questions from a reporter about industry consolidation. And when I think about that and look back to those early years of SMA back in the fifties and sixties, and I look at the membership roster, 95% of those companies no longer exist. And I am so proud to be able to support those of you out there that have found a way, that you’ve been resourceful enough, hard-headed enough, dedicated enough, whatever, whatever the right term is, to make it when so many of your industry colleagues didn’t. And Pederson’s is a good example of that, and lots of others, good members of SMA, that are a lot of them family-owned businesses that just have multi-generation, and they have found a way to navigate, again, the crazy regulatory burden, the consolidation where they’re getting squeezed on efficiency and price by big multinational firms. And I’m not going to try to sound like a person bashing big meat because they play an important role and we have nothing against big meat, but they are very tough competitors at times, and also very good customers at times as well. 

Neil Dudley: Sure, that’s right. And I’ve lived this truth so I can talk about it. The small guy always wants to point at the big guy and say, well, he’s bullying me, come save me, everybody. And then, well, if the small guy manages to beat the big guy, he wants to point at the small guy and say, well, you can’t do all the things I can do, look at all my resources. So, it’s every company, in my opinion, is alive because they solve a problem for real consumers with real money that- Otherwise, you don’t stick around. That’s part of what you’re saying. You find a way, you get stubborn, you just make sure you keep finding that solution that people are willing to pay for. Now you said a little bit kind of- how’d you get that counselor skillset? Is that just from being in those conversations over so many years, or was it your parents, or what gives you that personality?

Joe Harris: No, I can pretty much tell you that I love my dad dearly, but the compassionate counselor is not how I would describe him for the most part. I think over the years, it’s just an acquired skill, I guess. Over the years, learning how to listen to folks and having the confidence that what they’re going through I’ve helped others go through, and I know most of the time when we’re dealing with something – we get some unique situations I don’t know what to do either, but we’ll figure it out – I always tell members, I said, it don’t matter what you’re dealing with, call us. And if we don’t know the answer, we’ll know somebody that might know the answer. So just treat us like an extension of your business, and we’re that resource that’s always there. We get a lot of new members because they get in hot water with the government, and literally the government will tell them to call us. We get a lot of new members that are referred to us by the government. And I guess we’re the only insurance company in the world you can buy the policy after the fire starts. So you can call us up and join and you get unlimited help from then on. 

Neil Dudley: That’s really a cool way of thinking about it. I never thought about it like that. We do this webinar; every first Wednesday of the month, we’re doing webinars that are just trying to address hot button- one was about pasture-raised chickens. The most recent one was we had Kristin McNeely from the labeling office at FSIS join the webinar, and we got to talk about confusing label claims. Man, she is like, she can quote numbers out of these regulations. Anyways, I so respect all pieces of the puzzle. Now, do I always like them? No, because sometimes they make my life harder or they call me on my BS, whatever it might be. But they’re impressive parts of the equation.

Joe Harris: They are. That labeling group at FSI has some really, really good, talented folks that know their stuff. And fortunately for them, I mean, they focus on a fairly – I say fairly narrow, labeling is a big deal, but especially for companies like yours, where you’ve got a lot of claims that you make about your products and whatever, those can get pretty darn complicated. And there are two or three of those individuals there that we work with pretty closely and they’re quite good. 

Neil Dudley: For us, we’re going after a niche consumer. We need to find differentiation in the things we do. And then we need to be able to tell it. And so that’s why we deal with it a lot. And I think it’s so good to me they have a pretty narrow lane, so they can be really on top of that. The vendors, like we have great relationships with vendors. Matter of fact, we’ve had them on the podcast. Matt Malin is one of them that comes to mind that we really kind of got connected through SMA. So, talk a little bit about that for people that might want to access your memberships’ business as a vendor, that kind of thing.

Joe Harris: Absolutely. I’m glad you brought it up. They’re a valuable piece of the organization. We refer to them as associate members versus regular. A regular member we define as anybody that has an inspected establishment, that has an FSIS or state of Texas inspection number, that defines a regular member. An associate member is any company that wants to sell goods or services to our regular members. So that can be packaging materials, equipment, boxes, labels, spices, and other ingredients, just any- 

Neil Dudley: Insurance, services, legal. 

Joe Harris: So, anybody that wants access to our members and the ability to advertise in our materials or participate in our convention and network with our members, we like to provide that opportunity. 

Neil Dudley: I was just going to say, from a member perspective, that’s valuable to us. Like it’s kind of good to have them audited or give you a chance to go meet them without- you get these cold calls. I mean, in my email, there’s at least 20 a day from somebody wanting to sell me something that I have no clue who they are, who they know, where they came from, if they’re even a real person. Most of them are bots or some kind of just a funnel that you get in somehow. It’s nice to go to a convention and meet those people and they’ve kind of been audited by the SMA as well as the other members.

Joe Harris: And we try hard to provide value for those members as well. And I will tell you that I rely on the associate members a lot for their technical expertise. I’m a meat scientist by training, but over the years, I do a whole lot more political science and social science than I do meat science. And I’m not able to keep up with the cutting-edge technology. And that’s where that expertise is, with these companies out there creating and selling that technology and cutting-edge stuff. And so, I really lean on them a lot for things like that. And I appreciate all the support that I get from them. 

Neil Dudley: All right, so we’re coming up on 30 minutes. It always goes by real fast. I want to, when you get on the plane and you go up there to the proverbial swamp of DC, is that your experience? Like, I don’t know, everybody says it’s the swamp. Is it really? What do you think about it? Give me your perspective on that because I don’t think you’d be putting groups of people together and taking them up there if you thought it was worthless. 

Joe Harris: No, I think it is, but it also has been eye opening for both myself over the years, and then every time, I take folks that haven’t been before. Yeah, it’s a little swampy. And you get to see just how difficult it is to get something done. Because if you go sit down with your congressman and say Mr. Congressman, we got this problem, and we really, really, really need some help getting it solved, and we need some legislation or this, that, or the other. And his first thing is how are you going to get 217 of my colleagues to agree with you as well? That’s what it takes. I got to get 217 people on my side before anything’s going to happen on the House of Representatives side. So, it’s always eye opening. And you realize also really quickly how important it is that they hear from you guys directly because trust me, they don’t know what goes on out there in the countryside very well unless you tell them. And if you don’t tell them, someone who is not as in tune or aligned in the same direction as we are is telling them. So, we want them to hear from us. And I think it’s really important, even though we rarely go with some advocacy for, say, like there’s this one bill that we really want to get passed, that’s really not our purpose in going there. We want to go there so that when things come up, that member of Congress or those members of Congress understand who we are and what we do and help us. And then they’ll call on us for help as well when they do have things come up. 

Neil Dudley: That’s really insightful. I mean, I’m a bad example because I get in situations like that where it feels arduous and slow, I got to have guys like you that will just stick with it because I just quit. I’m like crap, that’s going to be too long. I want to just figure out a different way to do it. I’m not saying that’s good. I’m just saying I know that about myself. And it makes me appreciate you and other people from the SMA that go and spend the time doing that thing that I would have a hard time doing.

Joe Harris: You would recall during the pandemic, there were a lot of bills introduced in Congress. Everybody had an idea of how they’d fix the packing bottleneck, the bottleneck that we saw during the pandemic, and there were all these ideas and because of our efforts over the years and developing those relationships, I had multiple congresspeople contact us, contact me directly and say, hey, they’re trying to convince me this is the right thing to do. How is this going to impact small processors? Or will this have an impact on big picture stuff? And so that’s why it’s so important to just keep at it with Washington. It takes a long time to build those relationships. 

Neil Dudley: That’s right. I hope you heard that folks. That’s really gold from a man who has lived it for, what, 25 something years, 23, whatever number you said, I can’t remember, but has been doing this thing for a long time, and experience is irreplaceable really. You can’t learn all the same things from a book, from even this conversation right here. That time- I can just come up with some stuff that’s happened to us over the years that I know about now that I wouldn’t have known. There’s just nobody that’s going to think about telling me about that. You have to kind of live it to learn it. 

Joe Harris: Absolutely. One thing I wanted to bring up about your company and how I first got to know Pederson’s. I just started this job 25 years ago, and Pederson’s had just joined SMA, I think Pederson’s came on board just before I did.  And this really ties in a little bit to your discussion of vendors as well. And I was introduced to you guys by a gentleman named Bob Ondrusek at Columbia Packing. And he was always known as kind of the godfather of SMA. And he would take new members under his wing and guide them, get them involved in the organization and whatever, but he was famous for if a sales representative of a vendor came in to his office to sell him something, he would not take the meeting with them until they joined SMA if they weren’t already a member. He was one of the best advocates for the organization ever, but he so introduced me to you guys at Pederson’s. 

Neil Dudley: Well, I can’t say I personally knew Bob, but I know Jim really well. And Jim carries on that legacy, I think, of the way Bob did it, maybe in Jim’s own way. So, you should almost join the SMA just to go to the convention and hear the Bob Ondrusek stories. I mean, it’s almost worth it just for that. 

Joe Harris: I lived many of those stories. 

Neil Dudley: So, folks, that’s a quick, small, 30 minute insight into the SMA, Joe Harris. Go learn more. Joe, where can they find out more about the SMA? Maybe just give the website so we can put it in the show notes and any social stuff. 

Joe Harris: Absolutely. I can’t tell you all the social media. I can tell you the website – southwestmeat.org. So, very straightforward there. And we are on Facebook and Twitter. And I don’t know where all else, but look us up. Southwest Meat Association on Facebook for sure. On Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, I don’t speak those languages.

Neil Dudley: You have a LinkedIn, don’t you? They can go find you. Look up Joe Harris on LinkedIn, the president of SMA. This magic thing out there, Google, all you got to do is type Southwest Meat Association, and it starts spitting out all those things. Our producer, Johnny, he’ll go in, he’ll find all that stuff, link it in the show notes just to make it easy because the truth is this is 30 minutes of time somebody spent with you and I, and I know you well enough to know we don’t want them to walk away and think, well, that was a wasted 30 minutes. There’s been good stuff here. There’s going to be links to resources within this. Go use them. I mean, that’s what it’s here for. That’s why I want to tell Joe thank you every time I see him because he’s provided that stuff for me. That’s one reason I begged him to come on this podcast, so we’d get a chance to give other people that access. So, there you go. Thanks for your time, Joe. Listeners, thanks for your time.

Joe Harris: I sincerely appreciate the invitation. I’ve enjoyed the time. 

Neil Dudley: Yeah, awesome. Well, we’ll see you around. And everybody, don’t hesitate, reach out to Pederson’s, reach out to SMA. Anything we can do, we want to. If you’re a person that eats meat, here’s a couple of people that are deep into the industry, and if you have questions, we want to answer those. It’s all about you knowing more about where your food comes from. Peterson Farms Podcast, Joe Harris, thank you so much. 

Joe Harris: Thanks a bunch. 

Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Pederson’s Farms Podcast. It’s been a blast bringing this to you, and I sure hope you enjoyed it and found value. If you did, tell a friend, share it out on social media, hit that subscribe button, or go check us out at pedersonsfarms.com. We sure hope you do. And thanks for being here.