#39: Dr. Shawn Baker – Author, Speaker, Veteran, Orthopedic Surgeon
Dr. Shawn Baker Podcast Transcript
Neil Dudley: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Pederson’s Farms podcast. We are so excited you’re here. We appreciate you joining us. And we look forward to sharing these conversations with thought leaders from our industry. They’re going to paint a picture from every perspective – consumer, customer, vendor, employee, and peer – that I think is going to be super valuable, and we’re really excited to share. So, thanks for tuning in. Remember don’t tune out, and grab life by the bacon.
Hello. I appreciate you coming here. I know your time is not free to you, so we want to add value. That is the purpose of the Pederson’s Farms Podcast, and we’re going to explain some more of that. But right now, I got to be honest, I’m selfish, I want everybody and their dog to come to KetoCon. So go to ketocon.org and use the promo code bacon for $50 off your three-day pass. If you’re in the area, if you just want to become a part of the keto community, please come to this. Now, the reason I say I’m selfish is Pederson’s will have a booth. We’re going to be serving bacon, sausage, ham. We want the opportunity to show our products to you. We’d love to give you a better understanding of what we do and how it tastes. I believe if you give our products a try, we’ve got a really good chance of you becoming a fan, an PNFer we call them. And that is partially why all five episodes this month are focused around KetoCon. I’m interviewing, we’re talking to, we’re having a conversation with people that will either be speaking at KetoCon, founded KetoCon, working the Pederson’s booth at KetoCon. So, I think it gives you a really good opportunity to see and understand and hear a little bit before you even have to buy the ticket of what value is going to be there. So, thank you so much for just giving us that opportunity. Again, we’ll put all this info in the show notes, but ketocon.org, use bacon in the promo code or discount code to get you $50 off your three-day ticket. I really appreciate Robin giving that to us, and I hope you use it. Now, my name’s Neil Dudley. I’m the VP of Business Development at Pederson’s Farms, and I host the podcast. I’ve been in the industry for 20 years now, maybe a little over, and I worked my way up from a QA tech position to the C-suite. I mean, I really only got in the business because my best friend since kindergarten was made president of Pederson’s and he said, hey, will you come to work for me? And I was like, sure, I think that’d be fun. So now, all these years later, we’re still doing it and we’re still having fun. And I think it’s a great time for me to share these conversations and access to thought leaders, business owners, entrepreneurs, people that are making the food you eat. They are totally a huge piece of where your food comes from. And these stories are what I believe you have the right to know, understand, and get to hear. So, thanks for listening. If you love it, tell somebody, share it on social media. We need the support. We need for people to hear the story, I need your help getting it out there. If you didn’t like it, feedback is always welcome. We need that. We want to make it better. We want to make it valuable to you. So, if you want to hear what KetoCon’s going to have to offer, keep listening. I promise these people will add value and give you insight into the keto diet, the keto lifestyle, and many other things, everything from carnivore diet to intermittent fasting, to eating nose to tail, to how you keep an event alive throughout a pandemic where it’s pretty much shut down for a couple of times, a couple of years. Anyways, keep listening. Let’s do this thing. Thank you so much.
Well, this is the Pederson’s Farms Podcast, and it’s really dedicated to the conversation about or around where our food comes from, and today’s guest is going to be a great asset to this show, the listeners. I bet he’s probably done 10 of these already today. I mean, the guy is everywhere. He’s working his tail off to really try to impart a bit of perception, in my estimation, to the audience, the world, and those who seem to think meat is bad for you. Dr. Shawn Baker, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.
Shawn Baker: Oh yeah, my pleasure, Neil. Thank you for having me. It’s an honor to get to chat. I always like to thank- I specifically have a particular debt of gratitude for guys like you that feed us. I mean, I think you don’t get enough thanks, so I’ll just say it up front, anybody out there producing food and doing the hard work so I can sit back and relatively take it easy, thank you guys.
Neil Dudley: Man, you’re welcome. Hey, it’s fun. You said something before we hit record or did anything. I was like, hey, how are you? And you were like well, I’m good, I’m generally always good. And that’s a great attitude. I wish people would think about life like that. Like, hey, I’m going to choose to generally be good all the time, because the truth is you’ve got pressures, stress, all these things, and you just kind of have to say, okay, cool, but I’m still generally good. Is that right?
Shawn Baker: Well, yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of perspective. You can always look at it in terms of there’s a lot of people- I mean, with rare exception, there’s always someone who’s way worse off than you. But I mean, honestly, I’m fortunate. I mean, I live in a great country. I’ve got access to great nutrition. I’ve got opportunity. I mean, if you can’t say you’re good here, then you’re going to struggle to say your good anywhere quite honestly.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. I love how you just say it like it is. Do you think- where does that come from? Let’s learn a little more about you. Like where does that straight forward, no bones about it way you have come from?
Shawn Baker: Well, I think, efficiency. I mean, there’s a job to get done and there’s no sense messing in around. I mean, I did it, as a surgeon, I tried to figure out how to be the most efficient surgeon in the hospital, and I’ve been successful as an athlete, and you do that by figuring out what actually works and what counts and what doesn’t. And so, I think if we just spend our time debating nonsense, we waste a lot of time quite honestly.
Neil Dudley: Yeah. Now you were in the military a little bit. Does some of it stem from that? What did you do as a kid? Like, I’m just curious about a couple of those things.
Shawn Baker: Well, I mean, as a kid, I mean, I just played a lot, what all normal kids do, I guess what normal kids used to do, run around and run around the neighborhood and run around until the lights came on and streetlights came out and just try to play and be as active as much as possible. I got into sports at a relatively young age, and I’m still into them, I’m still playing. So, I mean, that’s been- I enjoy being able to do those things and have a functioning body and the health that goes with it. So, yeah, that’s been kind of- I still think I’m 20 years old, quite honestly, sometimes.
Neil Dudley: Well, you look it. For those of you that, hey, out on YouTube, you can see the man. He’s intimidating. I mean, you’re just a big guy. You’re strong. You’re fit. You’re healthy. I mean, nobody’s going to just come ask well, can I roll with that guy at the jujitsu class? I mean, you’re not going to be the one I would pick anyways. Does that hinder you in any way you think with trying to get your message out or does it only help?
Shawn Baker: I think it’s generally a positive. I mean, I never felt that being big and strong was ever a disadvantage. I mean, yeah, I mean, some people may be intimidated. I’m generally a pretty nice person if you get to know me. And to be fair, I mean, people in jujitsu, I go with anybody and there’s people that come up to me. We just have fun, and that’s what it’s about. It’s trying to better yourself. So, and I go against the hardest people I can go against. I make that my habit because that’s how I feel I’m going to get better whether they are more skilled than me, faster than me, younger than me, maybe stronger than me on some occasions. I want to go against those people. So, I mean, I think people equally feel that way. I think most people that go into jujitsu do it for a sense of trying to better themselves. But even as a surgeon, surgical training, particularly when I went back, gosh, when I was in the- 20 something years ago, it was a pretty- maybe not the most pleasant of places. I mean, surgical residence, it’s gotten better over the years, but it was a place where you were kind of abused with working many, many hours and often sort of demeaned and degraded, just because, talked to, and a lot of that didn’t come my way just because people were like kind of scared. Is this guy going to do something crazy? He’s 6’5, 285 pounds and deadlifting close to 800 pounds at that time. So, I mean, it’s been an advantage, and I think it’s largely been a pro. I mean, that’s an advantage. And most people, when you’re trying to sell a message, you should be able to walk the walk I think, and there’s people out there selling nutritional messages, but you’re like, well, how come it’s not working for you apparently? We all see those things. But at the same time, there are people that will sort of say, well, because you’re big and strong, you can’t be intelligent. You just have to be stupid, like- there’s a joke in orthopedic surgery, it’s like, strong as an ox and twice as smart or something, something like that. The impression we weren’t intelligent because we were strong. And really, I mean, all the data out there indicates people that are fit, strong, athletic tend to have better cognitive function. So, I mean, it goes together.
Neil Dudley: I know, let’s say I’ve never been like the biggest guy. I’m kind of blessed genetically, I think, I’m kind of skinny. But that doesn’t mean you’re healthy. It doesn’t mean a lot of stuff. Just being skinny doesn’t necessarily equate to health. But what I did this morning was I’ve been off of the workout. I do CrossFit. So, I’ve been off for about a month. I came back, we were doing like a Murph preparations, so lots of pull-ups, pushups, air squats. I mean, I about threw up. I was just so out of shape and then trying to keep up with those other guys and not eating healthy. So, we definitely need to get this conversation around to that diet piece of it. And this might be the great way to do that. I haven’t been eating healthy. I haven’t been working out, and I’m just out of shape. So, I have to ask, do you really- have you really ate only meat for how many years do you say? I mean, you never dropped off and had a salad or any of that?
Shawn Baker: Yeah, so, I mean, it’s been close to six years, so I started towards the end of 2016, so we’re getting close to six years. I have eaten meat every single day for six years. I’ve eaten meat, essentially, almost every single meal for six years. I ate three to four pounds of meat often, mostly it’s beef for the last six years. Sometimes I’ll have some eggs. Like currently right now I’m eating quite a few eggs. Sometimes I’ll have some different- it won’t always be beef. It’ll be chicken, it will be pork, it’ll be fish. Sometimes I’ll have a little bit of dairy, sometimes some cheese. But that’s pretty much been it. I mean, on rare, and I mean very rare occasions, like my kid who had a birthday party, and I had a little slice of cake just to celebrate. It’s not my normal diet. But I mean, by and large, I’d say, I can say pretty honestly say that 99% of my diet for the last six years has been strict animal products. And it works for me. And it’s not because I’m trying to- well, maybe I’m some proving a point, but I mean, it’s not that I’m doing this out of any particular ideology or belief system. It is just what I feel best doing. And I mean, that’s at the end of the day, what we all want. I mean, I want to feel my best, perform my best, ideally be in good health and how we define health, that is another thing is how do we define health? Some people would define health in a way that I don’t think is consistent with what I care about quite honestly. And I think to me, I mean, I want to feel good. I want to have decent body composition. I want to be to perform good. I don’t want to be hurt. I don’t want to be in pain. I don’t want to be sad. All these things, I want everything to work well, and for me, animal products, meat does it.
Neil Dudley: Yes, sir. I think that’s so insightful. Now, six years ago, was there some event that caused you to go carnivore? I mean, were you dealing with some, what do I want to say, metabolic issues or auto-immune issues?
Shawn Baker: Yeah. So, I think prior to that, what encouraged me to start even looking at diet in the first place, so I’m 55 now. Say by age 42, I was a big strong athlete, but I mean, I was definitely feeling the effects of metabolic disease. And there were a number of things going on, including various chronic pain issues with tendinopathy in my knees and just blood pressure issues and sleep issues and probably pre-diabetic quite honestly. So, I started looking at diet and so I just started playing with diet. And I did that for about six, six or seven years of continually tweaking and playing with the diet and reading. And I literally came across a bunch of crazy people doing an all-meat diet, and I thought this is the stupidest, dumbest, craziest thing I’ve ever heard, but it intrigued me enough that I was kind of like, well, this is curious. And so, after about a year of stalking these people, I said, well, let me just try it for a week, see how it goes. And I mean, I literally, I mean, it was one day, I mean, I literally was I’m just going to eat steak and eggs today. I did it for a day and I was like that wasn’t bad. It felt pretty good. And then about a week later, I said, let’s do it for three days. And on and on until I finally got up to a month straight, and I did it for a month, and honestly, I was like, wow, I feel really, really, really good. This is the best I’d felt probably in 10 years. And I’d been on kind of a ketogenic low carb diet prior to that. And then I was like, well, this month was a very interesting trial. I’m going to go back to my more kind of mixed diet. And I mean, literally in 24 hours, I was like I feel not as good. I started having digestive problems. I started getting aches and pains back. And I was like, all things being considered, I’d rather feel good. And so, I just went right back into the kind of all meat thing. And here I am, nearly six years later, still doing the same thing.
Neil Dudley: It’s just beautiful. Your experiment, your kind of only personal journey I know because I pay attention to you. Look, everybody listen, if you don’t- if you’re not familiar with Shawn Baker, go check him out on Instagram. You’re definitely going to watch his reels. You’re going to want to watch his reels. They’re pretty just great entertainment. By the way, just side note, where’d you come up with that idea to kind of just-? Was that all out of your brain? Have you got somebody on your team that was like, hey, you should do this?
Shawn Baker: No, I mean, that was all kind of spontaneous. I kind of just- I kind of looked at- I was looking at some of these things. I said, oh, these people are doing these side by side videos. And I was like, well, I get these people, and a lot of people laugh about the fact that all I’ll take somebody doing some crazy elaborate 57 step vegan recipe to recreate a steak. And I’m like, man, I just throw it in a damn grill and cook it. I’m done in five minutes, throw a little salt on there, I’m good to go. So, I thought that just the juxtaposition of the two would be a funny thing, and people loved it. And I was like, well- and do more, do more. So, I said, okay, I’ll do some more of these. And they start sending me all this ridiculous stuff. I mean, it is the most ridiculous stuff. And so, I mean, whether it’s somebody cooking some silly meal, it’s just like why are you even bothering versus some ludicrous guy telling me you can get oxygen from eating leafy greens, that’s how you get your oxygen. I’m like, well, I got lungs that kind of take care of that for me. But yeah, I mean, and so, I mean, social media is a goofy place. I mean, there’s a lot of silliness on there. But at the same time, people go on there to be entertained for a reason, to a degree. And I try to mix entertainment with education. If I were just to say, and I put up plenty of these studies and try to present them at least in a way, an engaging way people will maybe at least read the study or at least kind of clue into what I’m talking about. But you have to provide, I think you have to provide the entertainment. Otherwise, people just fall asleep and there’s not- I’m not interested in what this guy has to say, it is too boring. So, I try to kind of balance that. And so, some people get mad and, well, you shouldn’t make fun of these guys. And I’m like basically, they are self-parodies. All I’m doing is I’m basically letting someone else talk while I’m eating a steak and then you make the judgment call on who’s the crazy person.
Neil Dudley: That’s great insight. I mean, it’s kind of like the old adage, like if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. Like you’re kind of standing up for a perspective that you believe in, it’s yours, it’s worked greatly for you. And I think your medical history or the fact that you’re a doctor like really lends a lot of credibility to that. Well, talk just shortly about, do you even pay attention to the haters, the trolls? Because I know you have to deal with them, and I just am so curious, like what is that like?
Shawn Baker: I mean, honestly, it’s generally just entertaining because it kind of gives me more sort of inspiration and more- it is basically comic relief. And it’s kind of- I just let them speak for themselves. I get somebody telling me I wish you’re dead and this- and I just put it- Here you go. And let’s see what these wackos want to say. And so it undermines their message. And so, but to be honest, I mean, the percentage of people that send me nasty “I hope you die” type of stuff is such a small minority. It is probably less than a 10th of 1% of what I get. Most of what I get is Hey, Dr. Baker, thank you for putting this message out there. Thank you for letting me know that meat is healthy. I’ve used your information to get healthy, to get off medications, to fix my life. I was suicidal. I’m no longer suicidal. I was morbidly obese. I was on diabetic, all these things getting reversed. That’s totally cool. I mean, that’s a really fun thing for me. And so, I think, I mean, yeah, there’s going to be people that disagree with you and there’s people that- I can’t think of any public figure in the world that everybody uniformly has good things to say about, and I think it’s even worse if you go into politics. If you’re the president of the United States, automatically 50% of the people hate you, if you’re lucky. And then if you kind of suck, even more people hate you. It’s just kind of crazy. I don’t worry about that. I mean, hell, like I said, I’ve been in many places in my life. I was a trauma surgeon in Afghanistan where people were throwing rockets at us, and somebody saying something silly on the internet is so- it doesn’t even affect me. It just makes me smile more than anything.
Neil Dudley: That’s a great perspective for anybody out there. I mean, I think about even kids. I mean, I’ve got young girls going into junior high age, fixing to be going through puberty, already have the pressures of am I pretty, am I not? Am I fat? Am I skinny? All this stuff, man, that diet becomes- like I just am so concerned – concerned might be the wrong word, but I feel like it’s a great opportunity for me as a dad to help them by just feed them good so they’re already not battling some other thing. Does carnivore work for kids? I mean, what about that?
Shawn Baker: Yeah, I mean, I think that high quality nutrition works for everybody. I don’t care what your age is. And I think meat is high quality nutrition. Is it a necessity for people? No, it’s not probably for most kids. I think you’re going to serve your kids well by providing a very good nutritious diet. And I think meat is an incredibly important part of that. So, if your kids load up on meat every day, most meals, I mean, they’re going to be so far ahead of their peers. I mean, most of their peers are chugging down ultra-processed garbage, low quality, very little protein. It’s all just this processed garbage basically. And it’s affecting them not only just physically but mentally as well. And so, you see so many- and anxiety and these kids that are just struggling with identity and suicidality and addictions and drug addiction, nutrition plays a role in that, and it plays a bigger role than we are willing to admit, I think, or we should, or we don’t understand that. And it’s becoming very clear that as our diets have been progressively eroded towards less and less helpful, we’re just seeing the effects on an individual level and on a societal level. And I think unless we as a community say look, stand up and say, look, this is not where we want to go. And I’m not worried about myself. I know how to eat. I’m pretty happy. But I do worry about my kids. I’ve got four kids, from ages 15 on down to 9, and they’re going to have kids, God willing, in 10, 15, hopefully earlier or a little bit later, but I mean, at some point, I’ve got grandkids at some point, hopefully, to worry about, and I don’t want them to grow up in a world where they don’t know what a frigging decent steak tastes like or even have access to it. And I think it’s a real decision point. And I think we are making those decisions right now. And I think the people that- obviously you do what you do, you love what you do, and you think it’s important. But there’s some people out there that don’t realize how important this is and they are just kind of passively sitting on the sidelines. And pretty soon that choice is going to be taken from them, whether they like it or understand that or not. And so, we have to all be very proactive about preventing that.
Neil Dudley: Yes, sir. Now, for everybody listening, I’m not asking Dr. Baker the things I know you can learn from him. Just go listen to anything. I mean, he’s putting his message out on all kinds- So check it out on Instagram, his podcasts or just search it, just Google his name, and you’re going to find a million different things that’ll tell you all about his perspective on carnivore, the actual numbers, like the studies and stuff that really back it up. So, I want you all to go do that. I kind of want to, if you don’t mind, I’m curious what it’s like being a dad, I mean, because that’s me. Like right now, I’m being totally selfish because you’ve got some kids that have been through what mine are fixing to go through. I know you’ve got one high-performing daughter, at least, in track. Is that just like any other thing? What’s your strategy with them?
Shawn Baker: Well, I mean, obviously being a parent is not an easy job. It’s one of the harder jobs in the world, one of the more important jobs in the world, and none of us are perfect at it. We all have our pros and cons. One, I try to lead by example. I think that’s- I mean, more than anything you say, I mean, kids are watching what you’re doing, and you can say all this, but if you’re sitting there eating donuts and sitting on a couch all day, that’s what they see. You can’t be a hypocrite. So if you say, hey, look, food’s important, exercise is important, hard work is important, you’d better be able to demonstrate that. You better demonstrate why it’s important to them. How did you achieve your success? Well, one, because I just laid around and waited for someone to hand it to me. So I think that’s an important aspect of it. And I think that- I mean my kids, and again, your kids are- both our kids are now are a little older, but as soon as they could read, I started teaching them about the importance of food and nutrition. They’re reading labels, hey, I’m going to- Hey daddy, how much sugar is on this? Can I have this? Well, how much sugar is in-? You know what, I wasn’t- I’m not a strict authoritarian, you must eat this way. But at the same time, I’m like I’m cooking the food, I’m paying for the food, so guess what, what I buy is what you’re getting. And more often than not, I mean, it’s something that there’s a little bit- each kid has a little- one daughter, she loves steak. I mean, she’ll eat it. And the other daughter, she’s not- she’s more of a- she likes more chicken and fish and that type of stuff. And one likes some fruit and one doesn’t. And it’s just like you work within that framework, but I mean, it’s like you don’t have to work within the modern food system. I mean, if you roll back the clock to even our grandparents’ generation, there wasn’t 10% of what’s in the grocery store now with regard to all the hyper processed varieties, the Butterfinger flavored cereal. I mean, it’s just like ridiculous. It’s like they keep trying to have to reinvent more and more flavors to keep people’s brain stimulated because they get tired of eating. People ask me don’t you get bored eating steak every day? I’m like, well, do you get bored breathing air? I mean, I enjoy it. I mean, I literally enjoy every meal. I had a T-bone just a little bit before we did this, and man, thing was damn good. I look forward to it. I get hungry all the time. It’s like do you get bored of being hungry and eating? No, I don’t. And I like the fact that I’m getting high quality nutrition. But with the kids, I mean, you can’t control everything they do, obviously, particularly as they get older. Once they are about 5 or 6 years old and they are off to school, some other people might have some influence on it, but I think if you just kind of continually reinforce the message there, and again, reinforcing it means not only talking about it, but also demonstrating it, and I think most kids will get it. I mean, you can play on their vanity and your kids, hey, look guys, if you eat a bunch of garbage, your face is going to be full acne, you’re going to get overweight. And I mean, again, I don’t think we should demonize people that are overweight, but at the same time, we shouldn’t glorify, and we should tell people there’s a problem with that. And some kids will- their parents will say, oh, they’re a kid, don’t put that on them. But at the same time, what are you- 10, 20 years down the road when they’re diabetic or depressed or suffering some kind of food addiction or mental health issue, they’re not going to love you more for that. I tell people they’re not going to love you more for feeding them garbage. I mean, they may want it, and you may- maybe in the short term, they may smile and give you a hug, but at the same time, it’s like, how much of this stuff do I need? I mean, if I need the reinforcement that my kids love me because I give them everything they want or give them a bunch of junk, I kind of reevaluate what I’m doing as a parent and say- I think teaching them how to function and how to be competitive and how to survive adversity, those things are important and giving them the tools to do that. I think nutrition is a fundamental tool. It’s like you shelter them, you give them a roof over their head. You should at least be feeding them well.
Neil Dudley: Yes, sir. And look, I’m a terrible example. Ah, terrible is probably strong. I probably hold myself a little bit more accountable than what is true. I mean, we talk- we probably demonize sugar almost in our household a little bit, maybe a lot, but it’s a work in progress. What I’m trying to say is everybody, just I hope you’re hearing this and thinking cool, we might could do that a little better, let’s move that direction. Because I’m not perfect at it. We have a long ways to go in my house. But we do know that’s not a good idea.
Shawn Baker: Well, I mean, it’s intuitive. I mean, with my daughter and we had this conversation, she goes, daddy, I wish chocolate cake was a health food. I said I do too because I be eating it all the time. I mean, but the reality is it’s not. And I think if there’s a heuristic, I would say- people are like what about veggies and all that stuff? And I said, well, anything that sort of moves junk food out of the diet is generally going to be better for you. Conversely, anything that moves meat out of the diet is going to be less good for you. So, I mean, it’s like I said, I think if you have a diet that’s mostly meat and very little junk food, you’re going to be doing well. And I hate to say balance and moderation, it’s impractical to tell a kid you can never have a piece of candy or a piece of cake the rest of your life. I just don’t think that goes over well either, but you just have to really grind on the importance of if you eat a lot of that and you eat it all the time, you’re going to get sick and it’s not an if, it’s a when. and it’s something that you just have to sort of just say, look, if you- and you should value your health. And I mean, you think about what are you happy about with your kids, whether they’re track stars or get an academic scholarship, it’s probably more important that they’re just- they’re healthy human beings. I mean, that’s probably the most important advantage you can give those kids. And there’s a lot of people that have a lot of resources that don’t even give their kids that. I mean, these people are super wealthy, and their kids are obese. I mean, it’s like what the hell are you doing?
Neil Dudley: Do you know Jordan Peterson?
Shawn Baker: Well, I’m very familiar with him. I know his daughter I’ve met- I’ve not interacted with Jordan directly at any point.
Neil Dudley: I just caught him on an episode of Rogan talking about kids and winning, and what we really want our kids to do or what we really want is to win the game of life, which is a lot of championships. It’s not- Yeah, there’re single games in there. But we really want them to be fun to play with, like good at playing with others, making the team better, all those things. Because then the team makes them better. I thought that was a really cool illustration that kind of parallels what you’re talking about.
Shawn Baker: I haven’t heard him say that, but I get it. I get it. There’s more than getting into a good college and getting- I mean, there’s a whole bunch of things that make- and for everybody, it is going to be a little different. I mean, what makes one person excited- I mean, some people love music and I like listening to it, but man, I couldn’t play it and I don’t have the patience for it and-
Neil Dudley: Yeah, exactly. All right. So, we’ve already been gone by real- 30 minutes just flies by. So, I want to tell all the listeners, look, Dr. Baker’s going to be at KetoCon in Austin, and you want to come see him, hear him, come. As a kind of a favor to the show, KetoCon gave us a code, so you can use bacon for a discount on your ticket. If you’re listening, be sure to come to Austin. I’ll be there. He’ll be there. Pederson’s will have a booth. It’s just a great community. You almost can never fail just going and being involved with a great community, whether you agree with everything they do or say or think or not, it’s a great opportunity to learn and meet good people.
Shawn Baker: Yeah, I’ll be- I’m excited to be going back there. It’s been a couple of years since I’ve been able to speak. We had the pandemic. I literally had like 10 international speaking engagements lined up all around the world and they all got shut down, every one of them, so I was kind of bummed. So, it’s good to get back out and do some live stuff. I think there’s a- and again, I really enjoy hanging out with the people and meeting them, and universally, they’re usually good people there that all want to do the right thing, regardless of minor differences that we all have, and of course, I love being in central Texas. I’m going to hit up some barbecue while I’m there. That’s a- I think you’re making a mistake if you don’t while you’re there, for sure.
Neil Dudley: Yeah, that’s our wheelhouse. So, then the last thing, I sent you- well, a couple of things. I sent you a bunch of product. Not all- there was no- I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure there wasn’t any beef, maybe some ground beef. So does the family feast on that then?
Shawn Baker: Yeah, this is what dinner looks like in my house. I kind of eat a little on my own a little bit throughout the day. But for dinner time, I usually cook up some sort of beast, some kind of steak or roast or tri-tip, if I’ve been particularly motivated, get up early and cook up a brisket. And with that, there’s usually- there’s some- my girlfriend who is from France will cut up some various cheeses. And she’ll cook- She’ll usually cut up typically some apples, grapes or something like that, and then we’ll use like the different sausages as little appetizers. I’ll cook that up, while I’m- cause a problem, this is a funny thing. So, I like my steaks medium rare. I mean, I think that’s how it’s supposed to be. In France, they call it au Poivre, el punto in Spanish. That’s where it’s supposed to be in my view. But some people don’t like it that way. My girlfriend, in particular, she likes her steaks well done. It kind of pains me to cook them that way. And for a long time, it’s hard trying to get steaks at a different temperature, particularly trying to get them all served at the same time. And so, while that was going on, I’d cut up some sausage and put that out so they can nibble on that while I’m preparing all the steaks to the right temperature. I solved that problem now because what I was doing is I like to sous vide a lot of my meat. You sous vide at one temperature and I put mine in at 130. Hers needs to be at 160 and it’s hard to- so I ended up getting a second sous vide. So the steaks go in at the same time. All I got to do is sear them and everybody’s happy. So, if that’s an issue for your house, that’s one way to solve it.
Neil Dudley: That’s a pretty easy solution as well. I mean, it takes a little money, but it does make all the stuff come out about the same time. I think that’s a great insight because I would not have guessed you were sous viden – I don’t even know if that’s a word. Sounds kind of Texas slang.
Shawn Baker: Yeah, it is French. Yeah, I mean, I’ve been playing with different preparations, reverse searing. That to me is the most convenient and it’s just- like in fact, I got two steaks in there right now. I got two little ribeyes that I’m going to probably eat shortly after this before to jiu-jitsu and those are in there. I’ll put them in there for an hour or so. Like I said, super fast sear. I’ve got this grill that goes to 1,500 degrees, which is a pretty cool thing. And so, you can really cook some nice steaks that way. But yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing lately and it works well.
Neil Dudley: How do you reconcile for people that just think eating animals is unethical? Like I just can’t believe you’d kill another animal for food.
Shawn Baker: Well, I mean, I’ve had the fortune to be with a lot of producers, a lot of ranchers, and like I said, I mostly interact with cattleman. And I can tell you hands down, those people truly, truly want- have in their best interest the health and welfare of those animals. They do not at one point of their life think about how can I hurt this animal or torture or abuse. The stuff that we’re hearing from sort of plant-based advocates or vegan activists, it doesn’t occur. I mean, these guys have a good life. If we look at like, for instance, a cow, which is a prey animal, which is a ruminant animal, we compare it to like a wild animal, like a deer. And we know there’s studies out of- like University of Pennsylvania did a nice study on white tail deer. And what they found was after tagging a bunch of fawns, they followed them for about six months and found out that something like 57% of them died before they reached something like 30 weeks. And most of them are killed through predation, being ripped apart by a coyote or a bear or something like that. But just as importantly, all food unfortunately comes at the cost of life. I mean, every crop that’s out there, that’s grown, with rare exception, now there’s a few exceptions where it’s not done, but pesticides are sprayed. Those pesticides are not sprayed unintentionally. The name itself, what does a pesticide do? It kills pests. So, it’s killing lots and lots of animals. In fact, there’s a study out of Australia showing that to get a kilo of wheat protein, you kill 25 times more animals than you do from getting a kilo of beef. And so, again, you can’t just take death out of existing as a human being. And just about any product, from the clothes you wear to the house you’re in, to the car you drive, all those things came at both an environmental and a cost of life to something. So, you can’t just cherry pick and say, well, I think cows and pigs and sheep and chickens are cute and therefore, I’m just going to protect them and just ignore the literally, I mean, trillions of insects and small animals and sometimes not so small animals that are killed for production of all food. And so, it’s something that I think people in that industry are cognizant of the fact, they try to minimize that where they can. I mean, some are better than others. But to paint animal agriculture as this evil empire that’s only purpose is to enslave and rape and torture animals is just not grounded in reality. I mean, go visit- I would encourage anybody to go visit these places. Talk to a farmer that’s growing your whatever, whatever crop you’re using, your soybeans or your tomatoes and ask them do they have anything that dies when they- when they plant stuff. And they’re going to tell you yes, a hundred percent. And so whether it’s on your plate or you don’t see it, it’s still there. And so, I think- and again, you can talk about different farming systems or ranching systems, and there’s this kind of regenerative movement where they’re not spraying pesticides, they are not using herbicides. There’s minimal death, and you’re killing these large animals, like a cow. And outside of me, I eat a lot, but I mean the average person, they might go through one cow a year. And you put that in contrast to the many thousands of animals that are killed to produce plant crops. I think it kind of- it’s kind of silly to make that argument. I don’t think it’s-
Neil Dudley: It’s a challenge to the animal agriculture industry to somehow impart, we got to have these conversations every single chance we get. I was born and raised on a ranch. So, I mean, I loved those animals, and then I ate them and then that’s just the circle of life that they provide me nutrition. That’s actually respecting them so much. I think people don’t mind smashing bugs because everybody’s had a roach run across the floor or something. They smash it. And the people- I feel like it’s just really hard to get that experience with animals, when your only experience with an animal might’ve been your pet dog or something.
Shawn Baker: Yeah, I mean a cow’s not a pet. I mean, and I think that’s, people don’t understand that. I mean, I’ve got cute little dogs. I love them to death. I’d hate for anything bad to happen to them. At the same time, they’re not a cow. And I mean, for those people- there’s people in there, they show pictures of them cuddling up to a cow, but truth be told, I mean, cows kill a lot of people. I mean, they’re dangerous animals. And I mean, they may just- you don’t know. I mean, this is what- one of the reasons a cow kill, hurt so many people is because there’s so many cows and there’s people, so many cow-people interactions, but at the same time, they are not pets. And those animals, I mean the people complaining, these cows, oh my God, they’re under a shed. And it’s like, well, why are you living under a roof? You could be out in the wild. Why did you choose to live in the air-conditioned home when you could be in central Texas, when it’s 97 degrees with 80% humidity? Why are you inside in the AC? Why aren’t you outside being wild and free? The animals are the same way. They like to be comfortable. And I think a lot- and I think it’s a misconception, particularly in cattle yards, you’re like, well, these animals are cramped. It’s like, no, they’re not. Have you ever been there? I mean, by law, a cow has 200 square feet per cow that they’re required to have. They don’t use it. They don’t even use probably 20, 30% of that. I mean, they cluster together because they’re herd animals. They like to be together, so they don’t get eaten by a wolf. That’s the whole reason why they have this behavior. And I agree. I’m going to be speaking at, in the end of this month in San Diego, at the California Cattle Feeders Association, the cattlemen. And same thing, I’m going to tell them, like your message, no one’s getting you. You guys don’t have a message. You need to get it out there. You need to start educating people because if you don’t, these people that are wanting to have you eat bugs and ground up soybeans instead and make a lot of money doing that are going to win the narrative and win the hearts and minds of the people out there. And it’s already, I mean, I see people, even people that are meat eaters are buying off on this nonsense message that’s out there. And I have to sit there and act, try to wake people up or be the bad guy. How dare you support animal agriculture? It’s awful all the way. And the only- there’s a lot, there’s just a lot of misinformation. And part of it does, unfortunately, fall on the side of the producers for not getting their message out there. And I get it, you’re working hard. I mean, you’re in the field, you’re working before the sun comes up and often well after the sun is down, and you don’t have time to be on social media talking about this stuff. Unfortunately, somebody’s got to do it. And I’ve seen some good examples. There’s some good people, examples out there. I’ll point to a guy named Dan Venteicher. He’s known as the Iowa dairy farmer.
Neil Dudley: He’s great. He’s great.
Shawn Baker: He’s getting out there and doing it. And you need somebody on the- you need somebody on the beef side, you need somebody on the cattle feed or side to say, look, man, or the hog side or whatever, you need those people out there to start to say why do we do this? Why do we have a farrowing crate? Why are we doing this stuff? Because people don’t understand. They think it’s all because we hate animals and we’re torturing them. So, I mean, there’s a huge education gap. And then, as you know, no one lives in the country anymore; everybody’s clustered in the cities. No one even- no one could even tell you where their food came from or understand how it’s made. And so, that has to be rectified.
Neil Dudley: I’m so glad you mentioned Dan. I’ve mentioned his- that Iowa dairy farmer social media presence is just brilliant. His wife, him, they do such a good job. So, I really want everybody to go check them out too. If you’re listening, if you made it this far, we’ve got to call this over. I’ve already taken way more of this man’s time than I told him I would, but I just keep- I mean, I could just do this for hours – oh yeah, now last question. So, I’m going to stop. Dr. Baker, I look forward to seeing you in early July at KetoCon. Everybody, use bacon to get your tickets to KetoCon. Go follow Shawn Baker. We’ll put it in the show notes, all the links to his social media and website. Matter of fact, before we quit, what’s your latest project? Just real quick so everybody can start paying attention to that.
Shawn Baker: The biggest thing is our company Revero. And so we are using diet and nutrition to fix disease, basically. Basically, our mission is to reverse disease and get people off meds. And so that is, I mean, I’m on social media making jokes and goofing and trying to educate, but behind the scenes, we’re growing this company. We’ve just secured $5 million in funding, we’re hiring physicians, we’re building all this, building this platform and this healthcare system to really get to the root cause of disease, and nutrition plays a huge role in that and meat is part of that. It’s going to be probably a significant part. And so that’s what I’m most excited about. This is what I’m going to be doing for the rest of my life, as long as I’m active and working. So, I’m very excited to be on the- I’d say it’s the beginning, but we’ve been at it for a couple of years now and we’ve finally gotten enough momentum to where we can really do some big things. So, over the next year or two, I expect this to be a pretty significant shift in how we’re doing healthcare. And I know I’m not alone. There’s other people doing something similar, thinking the same way where I think it has to come. We have such a big problem with chronic disease, obesity, lifestyle problems, too much dependent upon pharmaceuticals that we’ve come to a breaking point, I think. And I think we’re already past that. We’re bankrupting the economy. We are bankrupting the health of the population. And so, we’ve got to turn that around, and instead of just talking about it, which I’ve done for a long time, I’m trying to do something about it. So that’s what I’m most excited about. So that’s revero.com. We also have information about the carnivore diet under carnivores.diet. We’ve kind of- those websites are kind of linked, but they’re kind of separate for people that just want to know about a carnivore diet. And then, my Instagram, Shawn Baker 1967, I spell Shawn S H A W N. So ShawnBaker1967, on Twitter at SBakerMD. I’m now on Tik TOK, also at Shawn Baker MD. And then I’ve got a YouTube channel, Shawn Baker MD. That’s where you find me. Then I’ll be at KetoCon for, I guess, well, I guess, I’m in San Diego speaking to the cattle feeders. I don’t know how many of your listeners maybe there, but-
Neil Dudley: Oh, we’ve got them all over the country, really all over the world. That’s what’s great about the podcast.
Shawn Baker: Yeah. Despite the fact that I’m big and maybe some people think I’m intimidating, I’m really happy to talk to just about anybody. I’m very to say hi, and I’m happy to shake your hand and chat with you for at least as long as I can.
Neil Dudley: Yes, sir. Thank you. Thanks so much for your time. I appreciate it. Everybody, thanks for listening. We’ll put all those things in the show notes. Dr. Baker, we’ll see you in July, if not, before. Everybody, if you see him, you won’t be able to miss him. Say hi to him. Tell him you heard him on the Pederson’s Farms Podcast. Thank you, sir. I tip my hat to you. Keep the good work up.
Shawn Baker: Appreciate you, too.
Neil Dudley: Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Pederson’s Farms Podcast. It’s been a blast bringing this to you, and I sure hope you enjoyed it and found value. If you did, tell a friend, share it out on social media, hit that subscribe button, or go check us out at pedersonsfarms.com. We sure hope you do. And thanks for being here.
(5:20) – Choosing to have a positive attitude & Shawn’s background
(11:19) – Shawn’s diet
(15:31) – Content creation
(17:47) – Do you pay attention to trolls?
(20:15) – Does carnivore work for kids?
(23:06) – Thoughts on fatherhood
(30:26) – KetoCon
(34:19) – How do you answer people who are against “animal cruelty”?
(41:53) – What’re you working on right now?
The Pederson’s Farms Podcast is produced by Johnny Podcasts & Root and Roam.